deangold Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I've been assigned the Thanksgiving cooking duties for my family this year. Anyone have general tips on purchasing a turkey from the likes of Giant or Magruder (e.g., which brands are best, when to buy)? In my love hate realtionship with my former employers (I love that they gave me enough stock to create a restaurant off the proceeds, I hate the mediocrity that dominates their stores and product selection etc), I must say that a WFM Turkey is worth every dollar it costs, jsut as a free bird from Giant is over priced! The WFM bird is lean without any chemicals or additives. It cook in about 10 miutes a pound to a mouthwatering perfection. The gravy will taste of gravy and not of the salt brine all too many birds are soaked in before bing frozen months before the big day. DO not follow the WFM instructions--- start the bird breast down for 20 minutes at 425 on a rack. Flip the bird breast up and roast for another 30 minutes. Turn the over down to 325 and roast until your bird has cooked a total of 10 minutes to the pound. Test for doneness in the thigh with an instant read thermomiter. If its 140 its done to medium. If you are a germ freak, take the thigh to 150, but you will have burnt thighs and dry breasts... not a pretty sight! Let the bird rest for 20-30 minutes while you make the gravy. Pour the drippings into a large bowl. Deglaze te pan with water, red wine, bourbon, armagnac, cognac, etc. Scrape every bit of dripping and crusty parts into the bowl. Thhey are flavorful and necessary to a good gravy. Defat as you see fit. Make a roux of flour and butter and strain the hot drippings into the roux, stirring till smooth. Simmer 20 minutes. You can strain now. You can also add a load of sauteed mushrooms and or giblets as well. I usually take the neck and make a stock the night before and add that too. By the way, you can add herbs to the gravy but I rub my bird with loads of herbs, garlic and olive oil before roasting it. I rum the mix inside and out and under the skin. This flavors the resultant dripping well enough for a tasty gravy. I just adust with S&P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm chen Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Deglaze te pan with water, red wine, bourbon, armagnac, cognac, etc. You mean to choose one of these, not all of them, right? I can only imagine... Then again, one branch of my family is particularly well-known for adding alcohol to every single dish at the Thanksgiving table (Grand Marnier in the cranberry sauce, sherry in the sweet potatoes, etc.) so maybe this is just the logical next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deangold Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 While the whole mixture might improve the mood of the chef, pick one for your deglazing. If you don't drink, use water or stock even! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Wilma Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 In my love hate realtionship with my former employers (I love that they gave me enough stock to create a restaurant off the proceeds, I hate the mediocrity that dominates their stores and product selection etc), I must say that a WFM Turkey is worth every dollar it costs, jsut as a free bird from Giant is over priced! The WFM bird is lean without any chemicals or additives. It cook in about 10 miutes a pound to a mouthwatering perfection. The gravy will taste of gravy and not of the salt brine all too many birds are soaked in before bing frozen months before the big day. DO not follow the WFM instructions--- start the bird breast down for 20 minutes at 425 on a rack. Flip the bird breast up and roast for another 30 minutes. Turn the over down to 325 and roast until your bird has cooked a total of 10 minutes to the pound. Test for doneness in the thigh with an instant read thermomiter. If its 140 its done to medium. If you are a germ freak, take the thigh to 150, but you will have burnt thighs and dry breasts... not a pretty sight! Let the bird rest for 20-30 minutes while you make the gravy. Pour the drippings into a large bowl. Deglaze te pan with water, red wine, bourbon, armagnac, cognac, etc. Scrape every bit of dripping and crusty parts into the bowl. Thhey are flavorful and necessary to a good gravy. Defat as you see fit. Make a roux of flour and butter and strain the hot drippings into the roux, stirring till smooth. Simmer 20 minutes. You can strain now. You can also add a load of sauteed mushrooms and or giblets as well. I usually take the neck and make a stock the night before and add that too. By the way, you can add herbs to the gravy but I rub my bird with loads of herbs, garlic and olive oil before roasting it. I rum the mix inside and out and under the skin. This flavors the resultant dripping well enough for a tasty gravy. I just adust with S&P. Honest to goodness Dean, I'm going to print out your instuctions and put them to good use on Turkey day. I'm never completely thilled with the birds I roast. But your description has my mouth watering. Thanks for sharing your secrets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deangold Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 Honest to goodness Dean, I'm going to print out your instuctions and put them to good use on Turkey day. I'm never completely thilled with the birds I roast. But your description has my mouth watering. Thanks for sharing your secrets. Did I mention the $500 per printing fee for downloading the recipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenticket Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Did I mention the $500 per printing fee for downloading the recipe? So where do I send the check? We used your recipe and both turkey and gravy were a hit! We wound up with moist, tender turkey and lots of flavorful gravy. Thanks for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deangold Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 So where do I send the check? Make the check payable to the Dean and Kay but a farm in Le Marche fund! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotteeM Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 For about the second or third time in my 3 decades of adulthood, I'm cooking a turkey for Thanksgiving. More specifically, a pasture-raised turkey from an organic farmer. It's not a Heritage bird, AFAIK--the photos I saw were of white turkeys. They've been raised on pasture with mobile hoop houses, in the company of chickens (my farmer employed the "buddy system" hoping the chickens would teach the turkeys how not to self-destruct). Last year I had a lot of success with an organic bird from Whole Foods (thanks for the instructions, Dean). Is there anything I need to do differently for this pastured bird? It will be fresh, not frozen, delivered on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, probably processed a few days earlier. I'm very excited about this turkey. The chickens and other products I've gotten from this farmer have been outstanding. Unfortunately, it is a private buying club which is at capacity now, so I can't refer other Rockwellians to this source at this time. Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoramargolis Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 The only real difference in terms of preparation might take into consideration that a pasture-raised bird can be somewhat lower in fat than a more conventionally-raised bird. Your prep could involve slathering some flavored butter under the skin of the breast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunk Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 For various reasons, money is extremely tight this year and I had to buy a "solution injected" turkey because it was on sale at a great price. This means no brining, right? Can I still do a rub under the skin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkduggins Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I had to buy a "solution injected" turkey because it was on sale at a great price. This means no brining, right? Can I still do a rub under the skin? You're right about no brining and feel free to rub away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Brine (if non-injected). Roast the bird upside-down. Honestly, I give up perfect brown breast skin and roast it upside-down the whole way (there's more skin on the other side anyway, and every time I try to flip it to finish the other side, the breast meat dries out. If you have a convection setting, I suppose you could flip the bird and then turn on convection to get faster browning, but I've never tried it). The legs will actually get to safe-to-eat temperature before the breast, but that's good...the more the legs cook (obviously to a point), the more collagen and other connective tissue will melt, making the dark meat more succulent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenticket Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 For about the second or third time in my 3 decades of adulthood, I'm cooking a turkey for Thanksgiving. More specifically, a pasture-raised turkey from an organic farmer. It's not a Heritage bird, AFAIK--the photos I saw were of white turkeys. They've been raised on pasture with mobile hoop houses, in the company of chickens (my farmer employed the "buddy system" hoping the chickens would teach the turkeys how not to self-destruct).Scottee - I'm attaching a file that was given out by Smith Meadows Farms to go with their turkeys last year. I have actually used the brining recipe before (it's Kim O'Donnell's variation on Alice Waters' recipe). It worked really well and was very easy. I'm pretty sure the bird I got from Smith Meadows would have been very similar to what you're getting - you're in for a treat! Last year I think I went with the basic roast turkey recipe in the attachment and it turned out great. I also made a wild rice and sausage dressing that went really well with it - can't find the recipe but will post it if I do. Good luck and good eating Turkey_20Recipes_1_.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Johnston Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 This may be a no brainer, but if a turkey is already brined or injected (I am cooking a 20 pound frozen butterball for this year), then use unsalted butter under the skins, compounded with herbs of your choice. I plan on a free range, organic bird (around 12 pounds) brined for the smoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I suppose you could flip the bird Funny - that's exactly how I feel about Thanksgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I knew someone would pick up on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoramargolis Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 A trick that I've used for many years really works to keep the breast meat from over cooking while the thighs get done. When I am bringing the bird up to room temp prior to cooking, I put ice packs on the breast. That way the breast meat is much colder than the rest of the bird, when it goes into the oven, and takes longer to cook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakegwinn Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 I don't know about the WF's in DC but the one I went to in NJ had 10-12 heritage turkeys available yesterday, 4.99/lb. Just FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Another thing is, that the white meat may have the barest of pink tinges and still be done (i.e. over 150 degrees--bacteria are killed at 141). Depends on the bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunk Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Another thing is, that the white meat may have the barest of pink tinges and still be done (i.e. over 150 degrees--bacteria are killed at 141). Depends on the bird. Is there a consensus on when when I should remove the turkey from the oven? I've heard everything from 140 degrees to 170 degrees. I have 14 lb. bird, and I am not sure how much carry-over heat to account for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 The dark meat benefits from some additional cooking, because of the excess of collagen and connective tissue. OTOH, the white meat just gets drier the longer you cook it. So ideally you want the dark meat at 165 or so (with some upward leeway) and the white meat at 150 or so. I achieve this by giving up bronzed breast skin and roasting upside-down the whole time. Others have other methods that also work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplesachi Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 this may be a silly question (or maybe one that was answered elsewhere but i haven't had the time to look... ), but if i am brining the turkey, how much faster will it cook than if i hadn't brined the turkey? i'm cooking an 18 lb turkey (using saveur's cider/apple scented recipe from the november issue - the recipe is for a 10-12 lb turkey) and i'm trying to figure out when i should put it in the oven for it to be ready to eat at 5pm. i was thinking if i put it in at noon, then it should be done by 4, which gives me time to rest it and carve it. am i way off here? any tips appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoramargolis Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 this may be a silly question (or maybe one that was answered elsewhere but i haven't had the time to look... ), but if i am brining the turkey, how much faster will it cook than if i hadn't brined the turkey? i'm cooking an 18 lb turkey (using saveur's cider/apple scented recipe from the november issue - the recipe is for a 10-12 lb turkey) and i'm trying to figure out when i should put it in the oven for it to be ready to eat at 5pm. i was thinking if i put it in at noon, then it should be done by 4, which gives me time to rest it and carve it. am i way off here? any tips appreciated. Brining won't change the cooking time. The major variables are the oven temperature, the size of the turkey, whether it is stuffed or unstuffed, and whether the turkey is at room temperature when it is put into the oven, or whether it is refrigerator temperature--a room temp, unstuffed bird takes a lot less time than a cold stuffed one, whatever your oven temperature is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Here's one for the peanut gallery: How low-and-slow do you dare? I don't particularly care for smoked turkey (and an experiment I'm doing this year on my for-wife-and-me-only turkey precludes smoking as an option), but I was thinking of doing the bird the whole way at 225degF, and count on my buddy M. Maillard for a bit of brown. Timing is not an issue, as it's just the two of us and we'll be painting that day (so the leeway is nice to have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm chen Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Totally unrelated question. I think I'm going to skip brining, because now I'm reading stuff that says you should neither stuff the bird nor use the drippings for gravy if you brine, and I want the freedom to do both. So I'll probably go with a compound butter this year, herbed and whatnot. However, I thought it might be interesting to put something else under the skin instead. Like chopped bacon, or truffle paste. And if I do, would it make sense to do it ahead of time (the turkey is fresh, not frozen) to hope that the flavors seep further in? If I do truffle paste I'll combine it with butter, but bacon would obviously stand on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Jael has a good point--if you brine, your drippings will be too salty for gravy. You can remedy this by making a bit of turkey stock (most supermarkets sell necks and wings this time of year), rendering a bit of the turkey fat (for the roux) from the wings before tossing them in. A little bit of the roasted fat and dripping can still be used for seasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakegwinn Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I think if you rinse the turkey real well before putting it in you shouldn't have a problem with the drippings being too salty. The last few years I have made kind of a base with roux and chicken/turkey stock. Then I deglaze the roasting pan with white wine and add it to the base. It has always turned out real nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktye Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I think if you rinse the turkey real well before putting it in you shouldn't have a problem with the drippings being too salty.I second this. In the 10 (?!?) years I've been brining the Thanksgiving bird (with a traditional wet brine, not a dry "brine"), I've never had the dripping-based gravy turn out too salty. I use unsalted (or low-salt) stock and don't add anymore salt until I've tasted it (but I do always end up adding salt to the finished gravy).I don't know about the effect on the stuffing. I gave up stuffing the bird at the same time I took up brining because it was also the start of our grilling-the-turkey tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babka Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I've got the day's first 911!! I have two 10 pound heritage birds sitting in the fridge. I dry-brined them Tuesday evening with salt, pepper, and sage--basically following what I do with Zuni chicken--and they've been air-drying since last night. At 6 this morning, I woke up to the realization that I'd forgotten about cooking the damn things. I have one oven. I don't need to cook anything else in the oven. I think my options are: a) side by side in one roasting pan (they fit, though there isn't much space between them), or butterflied and roasted on two shelves. Side by side is the easier option, because I've got 26 people coming to dinner at 7:30 tonight, but would that work? I think I'd bring them up to room temperature with an icepack on the breasts, then plop them into a heated cast iron, one by one, for 5-8 minutes, to give the bottoms a head start, and then put them in the heated roasting pan (or use the flat roasting rack?) and roast at some oven temperature that I haven't figured out, rotating them a couple of times to even out exposure. Butterflying the birds would allow more air circulation, but I have unpleasant memories of cutting through a turkey's backbone from an unfortunate deboning experience last year...should I suck it up, gulp the wine, and go for that instead? (happy thanksgiving madness everyone!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 We'll give you a pass on the unfortunate "dry-brine" usage (though, as a lady of letters, you should know better ). Go for option "A." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktye Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 My vote is also for option A. And if it looks like they are not cooking evenly, you can spin each bird 180 degrees around in the pan about midway through roasting. Happy Thanksgiving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babka Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 thanks! if I go with option (a), any guesses on how much extra cooking time I should build in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 My vote is also for option A. And if it looks like they are not cooking evenly, you can spin each bird 180 degrees around in the pan about midway through roasting.Happy Thanksgiving! That's something one should do even if you're cooking only one bird. So with 2, I'd not only give 'em a spin, I'd switch sides as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktye Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 if I go with option (a), any guesses on how much extra cooking time I should build in?My gut feeling is that won't take much additional time, if any. (And my in-house mechanical engineer concurs.) However, I have no real-world experience with this particular situation, so you'll probably want to take my opinion with a grain of leftover-from-brining salt. Hopefully another DR.com member will have a more definitive answer for you. Time to make the apple pie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legant Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I dunno... There's something not right about bringing your own Tupperware, only to take home the greenest bird. Plus: where's the after dinner lethargy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Lesson 1: Brining a turkey with a brine based on turkey stock is overkill--the brine is ineffective due to the gelatin in the stock. Lesson 2: Roasting pans with those big high handles are useless in an under-heighted oven. Lesson 3: Champagne (Thierry Triolet NV "Grande Reserve") rocks with T-giving dinner. Lesson 4: I'm very, very thankful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agm Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Lesson 5: Frying a turkey rocks. Moist, juicy, and tender... yum. Injecting it with butter infused with garlic and sage didn't hurt, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Northern Iraq has Turkey anxiety. Happy Tanks giving, DonRocks, Age 7. Rundown: Soter Rose from magnum 99 Gagnard Chassagne-Montrachet 1er Cru Maltoye from magnum 99 Gagnard Chassagne-Montrachet 1er Cru Blanchots-Dessus from magnum 99 Littorai Charles Heinz 99 Littorai Thieriot 04 Clape Cornas from magnum 02 Dal Forno Romano Valpolicella (defective!) 01 Dal Forno Romano Valpolicella 70 Ducru-Beaucaillou 01 Cerbaiona Brunello di Montalcino 00 Coulee de Serrant (2nd bottle slightly better than 1st) Stuffing, me. Eep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babka Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Thanks everyone!! At the last minute, a neighbor offered me her oven, so I wound up cooking the birds separately. The overcooked bird went into the trash; the perfectly-cooked bird was carved into tiny bits and tasted fantastic, like a free-range chicken only with more flavor, oddly enough. Hope everyone had a good thanksgiving, and that everyone is fully recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demetrius Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Wegmans was having a terrific sale on their turkeys earlier this week, and was able to grab a frozen twenty pound bird for $4.60. The beauty is currently living in my garage freezer, however, I am looking forward to a successful roasted turkey. I assume that some of the directions are written on the packaging, and assume that defrosting my frozen bird will take a few days. Should I brine the bird, and if so, other than water and salt what other ingredients should I include? Twelve or twenty four hours? Do I preheat the oven, or place the bird in the oven and set the temperature? For best results, do you start at a high of say 450, and then reduce the temperature two or three hours into the process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'm looking for a fresh turkey. Doesn't have to be organic but I looking for a local bird, farm or a source very close to the farm. I live in NOVA and am not looking for a long drive if I can help it. Soup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcs Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'm looking for a fresh turkey. Doesn't have to be organic but I looking for a local bird, farm or a source very close to the farm. I live in NOVA and am not looking for a long drive if I can help it. I would give the Organic Butcher in McLean a call and see what they can do for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMango Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Jehovah-Jireh Farm in Frederick County, MD. The turkey I picked up from them last year was the best of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Jehovah-Jireh Farm in Frederick County, MD. The turkey I picked up from them last year was the best of my life. Looks good. However, I'm looking to cook a turkey over the next couple of weeks. This is not for Tday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genevieve Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 If I have the choice of buying a brined or not-brined bird from Whole Foods, which should I get? Hoping to get a Bell & Evans turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoramargolis Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Will you brine or salt it yourself, before cooking? If so, get an unbrined bird. If you'd rather not brine or salt it yourself, buy a pre-brined bird. Brining/salting makes a huge difference in flavor and helps keep the white meat moist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naxos Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Hosting 25 for T giving - I have one regular size oven- trying to decide between one 25lb turkey or 2 birds and try to cook one on my weber gas grill. Any suggestions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Me, I'd go for the two birds, two methods approach. If I was going to take on the single bird, I'd break it down before cooking and start the legs/thighs to roast well ahead of the breast 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naxos Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I'll do a test this weekend- I have a small weber gas grill with 2 burner options- front and/or back- So indirect heat is out- I found an online recipe - might have been on Weber site- that suggests turning both burners to med/ low and check to maintain about 300 degrees- a bit concerned about constant heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toogs Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Whatever you think of her, Martha Stewart's turkey brine makes a delicious bird http://www.marthastewart.com/343940/turkey-brine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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